Not yet

I think a more accurate analogy would be “I’d be faster if Lamborghini didn’t steal the majority of my power output.”

Money is made up (especially when we think about company valuations and the ability to use stock as collateral) so I don’t think it’s accurate to say there is limited wealth. Wealth distribution isn’t tackling the fundamental injustice of capitalism.

Why do people keep inventing ways to make people feel insecure about their appearances? Because there is a lot of money in it, comrade.

Okay so I am really struggling to see what you are describing as writing people off as “going both ways” but I’m the kind of person who needs the obvious typed out really plainly and clearly…

It sucks that you put a lot of energy into people who aren’t engaging with you on your level. I’ve been there, on both sides. The double empathy problem helped me understand this dynamic better. Is that type of situation what you mean?

If so, that’s not really what I meant by writing people off. I don’t just mean not engaging with them, but also thinking of them as worthless or an impediment to your goals, or even as an enemy.

I don’t think anyone should “waste time” on people who aren’t interested in listening. I think that those who have interest and capacity to engage with folks should understand that a person may be more open to a different approach. They may not want to be directly discussing theories or issues. For example, I’m a really big fan of gardening other practical skills. Sharing knowledge or taking a class on a topic like that is a good way to get to know people and demonstrate the power of community and of workers.

The last thing I want to suggest is that people need to spare libs feelings and not say mean things about them on the internet. That feels like being told it gives veganism a bad name to be too “rigid” (🤮). IRL it will take a variety of strategies to participate in raising class consciousness. Just sharing my thoughts on something I’ve only really seen online tbh but I am sure exists in some places!

This is a fine meme

My reply was def a tangent and not replying all that specifically to the meme itself but thanks for the insight

Okay I wasn’t going to be too serious but this is a serious reply so I’ll treat it with the same energy.

I understand and appreciate that reading a text is important to getting the whole picture. I also understand and appreciate that one should read a variety of texts from different eras and authors. I just think we gotta meet people where they are, ya know?

I could be misunderstanding but it feels like the path suggested in the meme and this comment is to give up and write people off. Maybe it’s a vent, and I’m not trying to say I don’t think it’s okay to vent via memes and that I’ve never thought “you need to read some fucking theory” about anyone. Nor do I think it’s wrong to not bother arguing with someone who has an absolute surface level/spoon-fed propaganda level of understanding. However, if the people honestly and truly believe that people who have not read theory should be written off as hopeless, I do think that’s flawed and short sighted.

I don’t know you or the OP so the rest of this comment isn’t directed at you all specifically. I have a huge problem with the idea of the lumpenproletariat and specifically when it is applied with ablest implications.

There are absolutely people who have no interest in class consciousness and are happy to uphold capitalism for whatever scraps they get. Those people suck. Theory (probably) isn’t going to fix them, as they are addicted to the boot. There are people who may appear to be in that camp but really they just haven’t had any reason to question the status quo and what they have have been told about how the world works.

For some people, that questioning comes from a liberal arts education. I get this is a sloppy turn of phrase and this type of education is maybe more rare now but let’s just picture someone who reads theory and philosophy as part of their education or who has family who values and reads/discusses these things. For others it could be life experiences.

A lot of this is personal bias from me for sure, but I can’t discount my experience entirely. Both my partner and I come from families with low education and poverty, in “unskilled” trades, although both my parents did go to university and it was the expectation for me as well (about 50% of aunts/uncles/cousins went). I’m not nearly as well read as I would want to be but I don’t think my partner has read any at all? But he’s got class consciousness and it was developed by talking to people, his own life experiences etc.

I was radicalized more than a decade before I met him lol. We were in high school (in canada) during 9/11 and every thing that it triggered, including unpopular wars, increased surveillance, the patriot act etc. I lived in a big city and he was rural. I saw the G20 meeting in Montreal and the police sending in undercover agents to cause trouble as something that directly impacted me and my freedoms but people in his part of the province saw it as city people problems. I never liked the cops but this cemented that they were the enemy. I started learning about leftism and reading theory at that time but really lacked the real world experience to understand it as well as I do now. Besides documenting/participating in the G20 protests in Toronto in 2010 and doing FNB earlier that that, I don’t think I really re-engaged with theory until George Floyd/Idle no More when I wanted a better understand of race/colonial issues.

I am also disabled. Between special education as child (although I was “gifted”) and in/outpatient mental health programs I have had the opportunity to know and become friends with people who learn and process information much differently than I do, as well as differently than what is considered “normal”. Reading some of the foundational texts is just not accessible to a lot of people who fall into that category, but they could be with appropriate accommodations. Most people aren’t going to come out and say “I’d like to know more but I struggle to understand and engage with these texts”, at least partially because they are used to being treated as “stupid” and incapable. It’s just not worth it and I understand this deeply.

Additionally, I’ve worked some of the shittiest and most exploited jobs that people who are in this country with legal status find themselves doing and have experienced food and housing insecurity. Being too tired or hungry or scared about my future to be able to read theory is something I have experienced first hand, so I have a lot of understanding and patience with this situation. I’ve been lucky enough to be able to escape that and perhaps even luckier that my conclusion is that meritocracy is bullshit rather than thinking I earned it (and thus becoming a bootlicker).

This is over sharing and pretty off topic but I’ve had to acknowledge and undo a lot of abelism that I didn’t even know I had until recently and it’s been a really wild ride. Because of my experience in growing up poor and having most of my friends having learning or intellectual disabilities it was always been really important to me to value all people inherently and not think of people that couldn’t engage on my level as being “less than”. But my recent personal experiences have made me realize I was writing them off even if I didn’t think they were worthless as I wasn’t even trying to engage with them where they were at/or according to what is most accessable to them.

This topic is why I really appreciate groups like the Vegan Theory Club. My abilities have been in the shitter recently but reading groups, audio books, structured (and async) discussion really help me engage when I can. I’ve learned about and read books I would have never heard of otherwise. It’s not a one size fits all solution, and it requires a lot of labour to facilitate but it feels like a part of the solution.

I can’t believe it’s been 20 years since I did FNB (😭) but that was a good approach too. Showing people they are cared about, demonstrating how wasteful capitalism is, and being available to discuss with people if they wanted to chat but not proselytizing was super successful. People could get healthy and delicious meals with no strings attached and no hoops to jump though and we served everyone - including the yuppies out walking their dogs lol. I’ve experienced astonishing mutual aid frameworks in some of these poor/rural/disabled/uneducated communities too. Often, a community’s survival depends on them and they understand that, but they might not see the parallels between that and leftist thought.

This is mostly old lady yelling at cloud but it felt good to get out lol

Hear me out: what if the memes contained the theory?

It’s likely a spoofed number. Most of the phone calls I get have the first 6 digits of my 10 digit phone number despite me moving quite far away from where the number was issued (and keeping my old number). It’s a pretty good way to tell if a call is spam.

The fake profile knows his worth, okay?

How dare you they are spreading freedom

Okay but now you are foreign interference 🤭